Hello and welcome to Ukraine Calling, your weekly review of what’s been happening in Ukraine with a focus on a main issue. I’m Oksana Smerechuk for Hromadske Radio in Kyiv, and here’s a look at some of the stories that were in the news this week.
Hromadske Radio is independently funded. We are appealing for funds through a crowd funding initiative. Should you feel inclined to donate, you can do so here using Wayforpay.
Now, we are bringing you a feature about public broadcasting. Marta Dyczok interviews Andriy Kulykov, the head and co-founder of Hromadske Radio, Public Radio Ukraine.
Marta Dyczok: Most of the news about Ukraine that appears the international headlines is bad news. A Russian opposition leader assassinated in Kyiv. Escalation of hostilities in the war in eastern Ukraine. Corruption. But there’s a lot more going on in Ukraine than bad news. This week we’ll look at sector where there have been positive changes – the media sector.
Joining us is Andriy Kulykov, the Head and co-founder of Hromadske Radio. Long-time journalist who worked in print media during the Soviet era, then for BBC in England for many years, then he returned to Ukraine and built an illustrious career in television. Now he devotes his time to building public radio in Ukraine. Mr. Kulykov, thank you very much for joining us.
Kulykov: Thank you for coming to us.
Dyczok: One of the positive developments in Ukraine in the past few years that has not received a huge amount of attention internationally, or even domestically, is that state censorship has ended. It ended when the former President Viktor Yanukovych was deposed. Journalists and media outlets are working, as I can see it, in rather a new context. You have been working as a journalist for a number of years. Let’s start our conversation with a broad conceptual question: What’s the best way to safeguard free speech?
Kulykov: The best way to safeguard free speech is to rely on individual efforts coming from individual journalists. Freedom of speech, I think, exists to the extent that everyone accepts responsibility for exercising our own rights to free speech. Of course, if we join our efforts in some sort of organization, be it a professional union or broadcasting organization owned by journalists who combine their efforts, then it may be better.
Dyczok: Thank you. Let’s talk about Hromadske Radio. You are the Head and co-founder of Hromadske Radio (Public Radio Ukraine). Our listeners know that HR exists, but I often get asked what exactly is Hromadske Radio? Is it like Ukraine’s BBC? Is it like NPR (National Public Radio) in the US? Or is it a new model? Could you explain to our listeners, what exactly is Hromadske Radio?
Kulykov: I am not acquainted with foreign broadcasters to the extent that I can draw parallels, but I think it is more or less resembles public broadcasting services found in the United States, whereby public broadcasters rely on financial support of their listeners. We are not exclusively relying on listeners support, although we have launched several successful crowdfunding campaigns…
Dyczok: That was exactly what I wanted to ask you. Sorry for interrupting. That is exactly what I get often asked, “Who funds Hromadske Radio? Where do they get their money from?” You said you are running crowd funding campaigns…
Kulykov: Yes, we are running this campaign now and we set ourselves very ambitious goal to collect 3 million Hryvnia within six months. We are rather behind the schedule now and we are still looking for this money. If anyone wants they may go to the “Support” button on our website and make a donation using their debit [or credit] card. Given the low income level of Ukrainians, and the fact that they are still not really used to providing support to new enterprises through such means. We also rely on foreign grants. They come from a number of foreign embassies, and international organizations. We have some support from Canada. We have some support from the UK, Poland, and other countries. As a rule not directly from their governments, but from some programs and organizations established by those governments. Like CIDA, for example, or USAID, or different quasi non-governmental organizations and some non-governmental organizations.
Dyczok: So it sounds like NPR model, where donations come from its listeners and foundations. Thank you explaining that. Let’s broaden the lens a bit. Ukraine is about to have a fully-fledged public broadcasting system. Just a little bit of background for our listeners. In the Soviet era, the entire broadcast sector was owned and controlled by the Soviet state and the Communist Party. When Ukraine declared its independence, most of the media sector was privatized. But political elites believed that media is an instrument of power, they kept one national TV station and one radio channel in state hands. Ukraine had this hybrid — mainly private and partially state owned system. So since what’s known as the Revolution of Dignity the new, the current President Poroshenko and government, pledged to give up control over the remaining state media and convert it into publicly owned media. The process is almost complete, the legislation is in place, and, correct me if I am wrong, now a selection process for a director is under way. And shortly we will have the name of who will head this up. Could you explain – and this is what people ask me a lot — there is Public Radio Ukraine, Hromadske Radio, but there is Suspilne Radio, state broadcasting. How does Hromadske radio fit into the bigger picture of public broadcasting in Ukraine?
Kulykov: I think the major difference now between big and small public broadcaster, such as Hromadske Radio, is that we do not take any money from state budget whereby newly created Suspilne Movlennia, a public broadcaster…
Dyczok: There is a confusion because in English there is only one word “public.”
Kulykov: Yes. Let’s devise a term. Let’s call ourselves “Public Radio” (because we do not do television) and the others “a Public Broadcaster,” because they do both radio and television. “Public Radio” and “Public Broadcaster.” So the Public Broadcaster is supposed to be financed from the state budget. Public Radio is not, and will not be, financed from the state budget.
Dyczok: Sorry to interrupt. Can you explain why? Is that your choice or is that reality?
Kulykov: This is absolutely our choice. Because we think that being financed from the state budget does the create risk of state officials trying to interfere into our affairs, and to influence our editorial policy. In the same way we do not accept what is called “political advertising.” This is a lucrative way of earning money especially during the times of elections. We had people from different political parties to approach us with huge sums, but we decided out of principle not to engage into political advertising, because this is one of the ways to become dependent on different political groups. This is one of the temptations that many journalists face in Ukraine. As soon as you start taking money from someone you become reliant on this money and on this someone. We would rather prefer to be dependent on our listeners, who may support us in different ways and do not pose any threats to our editorial independence. In any way, we are meant to work for them, whether they give us money or not.
Dyczok: Are you open to commercial advertising? A lot of public broadcasters now do take commercial advertisement. BBC, CBC, they all run ads for financial reasons.
Kulykov: Yes, we are open to commercial advertisement and we would like to see more of it come our way. Although there might be some exceptions to goods, commodities, and services that we advertise. Some luxury goods or some practices and commodities that we may deem unhealthy both for physical and moral health of our listeners.
Dyczok: Listeners of Ukraine Calling hear this show because it is in English, and they may not have an idea about the rest of programing on Hromadske Radio. Can you tell us what makes you unique, interesting, worth listening to?
Kulykov: I do not think we are unique as we sometime create an impression of. I am sure that among hundreds of radio stations that exist in different corners of Ukraine there are less known radio stations that provide approximately the same range of programming we do. But they are mostly in smaller towns and rather remote locations, so they are not heard on the national level. To describe our product I would say, first of all, it’s news and current affairs.
Dyczok: International, domestic?
Kulykov: Mostly domestic because we have very few people who work for us or support us abroad. One of them being our today’s interviewer– Marta Dyczok — and also probably three or four people in other countries.
Dyczok: Sorry, let’s have a shout out. Anybody listening who would like to be a foreign correspondent for Hromadske Radio, please get in touch with the editorial board.
Kulykov: Absolutely, but keep in mind that this is voluntary work and you are not going to be paid, at least not very soon, for this.
Dyczok: Well, until the commercial advertising starts rolling in.
Kulykov: Yes, absolutely. So it is mostly domestic. Of course we sometimes do not rely on correspondents abroad. We just call people who are interviewers abroad in Russia or Belarus, or France, or Poland, and sometimes in Canada. And we are talking not only to journalists there. For instance, today, as far as I know, we had an interview with the Ukrainian Ambassador in Canada, Mr. Andriy Shevchenko. There are ways of getting information from different countries, but the bulk of our broadcasting comes from Ukraine, because we have quite a network of correspondents, and also colleagues who sometimes talk to us in different cities and regions of Ukraine. We travel around Ukraine, we pay special attention to the East of the country where there is warfare going on, and we also pay special attention to Crimea, the peninsula which was annexed by Russia. Although we do not have many people who would be willing to openly cooperate with us in that territory, we still find ways to get information from there. On the other hand, we have quite a lot of programs with social significance…
Dyczok: Can you give us an example?
Kulykov: For instance, there is a program which is called the Justice Gene [Ген Справедливості], which explains how people can safeguard their rights in the everyday life.
Dyczok: So that is like public service, right?
Kulykov: Yes, I would say yes. You are right, that is like public service. We also have some historical programs, some programs devoted to the life of minorities in Ukraine, and this includes ethnic minorities, religious minorities, or sexual minorities. We do this because we feel that everyone has the right to their interest to be taken into account.
Dyczok: What is your most popular program, apart from Ukraine Calling?
Kulykov: By the way if you go to our website and see how many people listen to Ukraine Calling, you will easily see that it is among the most popular programs on Hromadske Radio, because it is rather unique. Not only it is done in English, whereas the rest of the programs are in Ukrainian or Russian, but it also gives an international prospective to what is going on in Ukraine. As a program this is a unique product, which we would like our other programs to be as well. We would like them to be as unique as Ukraine Calling. So it is not just words. Go and see the figures. You can find the number of visits to the pages of different programs. Of course there are programs in Ukrainian or Russian, which have more visitors or listeners than Ukraine Calling, but on the average I think that this is a very good number of visitors coming to the program. One of the reasons is not only the quality of the program, but also the lack of information from Ukraine coming in foreign languages, in English in particular.
Dyczok: Thank you for your kind words, but I am still interested in Ukraine. What are the most popular programs: the news, the social programs, the music, feature interviews? What are you finding your audience is interested in? Or all of it is equally interesting?
Kulykov: It is equally interesting for us to make, not so much equally interesting for people to listen to. It also depends on the competition. Wherever we are working with topics that are been widely covered by other broadcasters in Ukraine, there we find that the number of listeners, or visitors to our webpage, is not as high as we would like them to be. Unless we provide a special angle on the topic, which we would often try to do. On the average I would say those programs which have applicable [practical] significance, which teach people something — the social services programs, as you put it, explaining to people how to contact the authorities, or even given the time of the work of the check points in the combat zone — are most popular. You know, this the knowledge that people gain from us and use immediately or almost immediately. Musical programs are probably not as important, or as popular as we would like them to be, partly because in Ukraine, I think, there is not enough taste developed for quality music among the general public. And we try to play quality music, not just easy listening stuff. Historical programs, which delve into Ukrainian history are rather popular as well, as are different exclusive interviews which we do with Ministers. I don’t mean Ministers of religion, although sometimes they are popular as well, but Ministers of the Ukrainian Government, or officials who hold high positions in the different Ukrainian regions and newsmakers, whoever they are.
Dyczok: Well, you do have a wide variety of programs. What I have noticed is that audiences for public radio internationally tend to be people who are looking for objective quality information, not the sensational stuff, not, as you say, easy listening music, but the substantive, quality things. Ukraine has been experiencing informational warfare for a few years, something that Western countries are now beginning to understand what it feels like. How has working in conditions of information warfare affected the work of Hromadske Radio?
Kulykov: We started during the period of information warfare. Even before Russia launched an armed aggression against Ukraine, there was informational and propaganda aggression. And since our [Hromadske Radio] inception in the summer of 2013, I think we were involved in this informational warfare. Not out of our own choice, but because the situation was such that it was important to present a non-engaged view of the things that were happening in our country. So, we have grown up with this, but when the hot war started, the situation became even more challenging for us, especially since we were the first broadcasting company, which started targeted broadcasting to Donbas, where there are Russian troops, and many people lost their lives, not to mention their property.
Dyczok: Sorry, can you explain what you mean when you say ‘brought targeted broadcasting’ to that region? Who are you targeting and with what goal?
Kulykov: We are targeting people who are ready to listen to something different from Russian propaganda. The matter is that since the war in Eastern Ukraine began, and since some parts of the country were occupied by Russian troops, snatched away from the control of central Ukrainian authorities by separatist forces, Ukrainian mass media were effectively banned from those areas. Transmitters and transmission towers were ruined and in many cases there was absolutely no way to deliver information born in Ukraine to those areas. So we found ways to introduce our broadcast into this area.
Dyczok: Tell us how did you do this?
Kulykov: There was a number of ways and means. Like, for instance, getting some of the transmitters to be lent to us. We have rented some of the transmitters, as they say, “until the end of the special period.” “Special period” being a time until Ukrainian authority is restored in this area. Not many people in the commercial branch of broadcasting were ready to risk their money in order to launch broadcasting in those areas. It was too risky. And the state machine was too cumbersome to launch such broadcasting. The initiative from the ground, which Hromadske Radio, public radio, is, was ready to risk the effort, was ready to risk the loss of some money. And we did it. We developed a special program called Kyiv-Donbas — not a very good title because it still has a whiff of juxtaposition or separation, but it was necessary to name it in this way to draw people’s attention and it was meant for those areas. And for some time we were in some of the areas in Eastern Ukraine the only Ukrainian broadcaster that was available to people on a regular basis.
Dyczok: How do you know who listens to you in those areas? Are you reaching areas of Ukraine that are not under control of the Ukrainian government? And again, how do you know if people, in the areas not controlled by Ukraine, are listening to you?
Kulykov: Well, I know them personally. Sometimes I meet those people. And our colleagues are meeting those people because quite often we go to the Eastern part of the country, next to the front lines. And some of us have gone behind the front line and spent some time in the occupied territory. We talked to people there, we receive telephone calls from those territories, and have some evidence that we are being jammed –
Dyczok: That’s a sign of success!
Kulykov: Yes, that’s the sign of success, on one hand. On the other hand, it’s a reason to be sad because when you’re being jammed, most of the people cannot really listen to you.
Dyczok: People have a way of finding radio. Remember that during the Soviet period that jamming didn’t prevent voices coming from the West
Kulykov: Oh, definitely, definitely. And they find some other measures of counteracting us. For instance, Internet access to our site was banned in Russia and consequently, in Crimea, which is occupied by Russia. Because we carried an interview with a speaker of the Muslim organization which is banned in Russia. And they wrote to us and demanded that this material is removed from the site. And we refused to do so, and so they banned the access. But, people write to me from Crimea that they have found ways to overcome, to bypass this restriction.
Dyczok: Just to be clear, you’re officially banned in Russia and in the Crimean peninsula, but people are still getting around in accessing your information?
Kulykov: Yes, yes.
Dyczok: Cool, another sign of success. My colleague here, Timothy Glasgow, has a question for you.
Glasgow: I was thinking, as you were speaking, something that has happened in the media here, in North America, as I’m sure you’re aware, in the last few years, there has been a shift from all news organizations, whether it’s public or commercial. A feeling that they have a mandate, sort of an honorable mandate of providing balanced coverage of everything that happens that may be political. I was wondering, in a place that is so politically volatile, as where you are, if you, as a broadcaster, are you providing balanced coverage? Do you try to cover both sides of a story, or is it so clearly obvious that there is really only one side to tell that you’re just concerned about telling that? And is there conflict within your organization about it?
Kulykov: Well, there was, and there still is some conflict in our organization, but, we are mostly on the side of those people that you mentioned. Yes, we think it is our function, not so much our mission, but our function to provide the balanced coverage and to give the opportunity for different people to speak. And there is a huge discussion in Ukraine since the war started, whether it is patriotic — or how a journalist, who is a patriot, has to behave in these circumstances, and some people say –
Dyczok: So, how to be journalist and a patriot?
Kulykov: Yes, yes, yes, and some people say that we should say only good things about our country, and some people say ‘right or wrong, this is my country’, and some people say that to be a patriot in such circumstances is to follow professional standards. Because our professional standards, journalists in general the world over, are truth, accuracy, and some other related things. Truth saves lives, truth saves souls — if we admit that there is a soul, truth saves your self-respect. Lies kill, lies deceive, lies put you in very precarious positions. So, this is the answer. We try to be as balanced as we are, of course, sometimes we err on this or that side, but the next morning, the next day we rectify the situation. Next morning or next day we try to rectify the situation and become balanced again.
Dyczok: Lies kill, truth saves — interesting and profound. I’d like to end on a personal note, and feel free not to answer these questions if they’re too intrusive. What is it that motivates you to do what you do? And what are you most proud of that you and Hromadske Radio have accomplished? And what’s the most fun thing about working at Hromadske Radio?
Kulykov: The most fun is to meet people who recognize you by your voice all around Ukraine, in the East, in the West. The most fun is when, for instance, in L’viv, which is in the west of Ukraine and is considered the stronghold of Ukrainian patriotism or nationalism, they say that they are listening to some of our programs in Russian language because the source for which they take the information is not readily available in other broadcasts. And the same thing is in the East of Ukraine, when, in mostly Russian speaking areas, they listen to you in Ukrainian because ‘we know what you say is truthful, and what you say is useful.’ What makes me personally tick is not the belief, but the knowledge that radio in the modern conditions is instrumental to democratic development of our country, and it provides, or at least it can provide or it will provide, a very broad public ground for nation-wide discussion. Radio, by its nature, is a very democratic means of communication, and I think that by having launched a very small at that time and growing now radio operation, we are doing a very useful service to our country and our people.
Dyczok: Public service broadcasting. Thank you very much. Is there anything you’d like to add that I didn’t ask you about, that you’d like to tell our listeners about?
Kulykov: Oh, I think not at the moment, but let’s think about this until the next interview, if it ever materializes.
Dyczok: I hope so. And thank you very much for all those interesting comments, insights, and telling our listeners a little bit how Hromadske Radio operates, and what makes you tick. And we’ll be sure to post a link to the crowdsourcing initiative, and if anybody would like to support this project, you can do so online here.
If you have any trouble with it, then you can write to hromadskeradio.org and we will help you make the donation. Thank you very much.
Kulykov: Thank you.
Visa Free Travel to EU for Ukrainians
Ukrainians will soon be able to travel to the EU without visas. This week the European Parliament voted overwhelmingly in favour of the bill that waives visa requirements to all Ukrainians who hold a biometric passport. On Thursday 6 April, 521 parliamentarians voted for the bill, 75 voted against, and 36 abstained. This has been a long process and one final step remains – the Council of Ministers must formally adopt the bill. This is expected to happen by June. The new law will allow Ukrainians visa free travel for tourism, to visit relatives or friends, for business purposes, but not for work. Belgian EuroMP Mariya Gabriel, rapporteur for the proposal, said that this was “another very strong message that Ukraine is a key partner for the European Union in the Eastern Partnership.” Ukraine’s European Integration Minister also hailed the decision, calling it ‘a strong signal to the aggressor that Ukraine is on its way back to the European family.” Others were somewhat less optimistic, calling this a symbolic gesture, and that Ukraine was unlikely to be offered EU membership anytime soon. There is a link to the European Parliament announcement.
IMF Tranche issued
On Monday, the International Monetary Fund announced the issue of a tranche of US$ 1 billion to Ukraine, after holding its Third Review.
The IMF had delayed its decision to issue the loan in order to assess the impact of a newly-imposed trade blockade with separatist-held Donetsk and Luhansk territories. The conclusion of the IMF assessment was that the blockade would only have a moderate impact on economic growth.
So far, Ukraine has received $8.38 billion from the IMF since 2015, which includes the tranche announced on Monday. This is part of a $17.5 billion loans to Ukraine’s economy, to help it climb out of the recession which began with the annexation of Crimea and the Russian-backed separatist insurgency.
The IMF also set out a list of demands that Ukraine should fulfill by 2019. That would include pension reform by raising the pension age and doing more to tackle corruption. The Fund encouraged implementing structural reforms and taming high public debt.
Eurovision: Criticism from the European Broadcasting Union
EBU Director General, Ingrid Deltenre, wrote a letter to Prime Minister of Ukraine, Volodymyr Groysman, warning that Ukraine can be excluded from future competitions if the Ukrainian government does not allow the Russian contestant Yulia Samoilova to enter the country. In addition, she told the Ukrainian Prime Minister, that some of the participants may consider leaving the contest. She stated that No previous host country has prevented an artist performing at the Eurovision Song Contest and the EBU would not like a precedent to be set in 2017. She added that the EBU considers the current ban of the Russian singer as unacceptable.
Military Cooperation Deal signed with Canada
On Monday 3rd April, Canadian Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan met Ukrainian Defence MInister Stepan Poltorak to sign the Canada-Ukraine Defence Cooperation Arrangement.
This is a bilateral arrangement for mutual cooperation in areas such as defence policy, defence research and development and production, and also military education.
This Arrangement could have far-reaching implications for Ukraine’s efforts to buy Canada-made weapons.
Canada had looked into putting Ukraine on the Automatic Firearms Control List, which would allow Canadian exporters to sell Ukraine weapons.
Ukrainian Minister Poltorak said that now, the new cooperation agreement would be a step towards Ukraine getting on the list. He explained that the weapons that Ukraine would be seeking would be defensive in nature, and intended to repel attacks by Russian-backed separatists who use sophisticated heavy weapons.
As journalist Brian Whitmore reminds us, ‘Three years ago this week Russia’s hybrid war against Ukraine began in earnest. Russian-backed mobs and militias began storming and taking over government buildings.” In three years almost 10,000 people have been killed, around 2 million displaced.
The last days of March saw active hostilities all along the frontline. Some areas, particularly those just north of Donetsk, saw heavy shelling 24/7. The Minsk Trilateral Contact Group agreed to a ceasefire from the 1st of April. This did result in a certain de-escalation over two days, but then the attacks resumed.
Ukraine once again suffered casualties. This past week, 5 soldiers were Killed in Action on the frontline and 39 Wounded in Action.
In the meantime, the Vice-Speaker of the Parliament, Iryna Herashchenko, who is also the representative of the Humanitarian issues Group in the Minsk Process, provided the latest update on missing persons due to the war. At the moment there are 121 persons who have been illegally detained in parts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts controlled by Russia-backed separatists. There are 418 persons who are missing.
Public Broadcasting Chief to be Selected Next Week
Ukraine’s media system is poised for more change. Next week the recently reconfigured Public Broadcaster will have a new Director. Ukraine Calling listeners may remember, the political elite now in power made a commitment to give up control over broadcasting. To convert the State Owned Ukrainian TV and Radio Broadcasting Company, a left-over from the Soviet era, into a Public Broadcaster that would not be controlled by the state.
It’s been a long and difficult process, but most of the pieces are in place – the legislation, the documentation, the Board of Directors. And the selection process for a new chief is in the final phase. Eight people applied for the job: Zurab Alasania, Roman Vybranovs’kyi, Yuriy Darahan, Oleksandr Zorka, Oleksandr Zyrin, Oleksandr Kovalenko, Oleh Nalyvaiko, and Marek Sierant. Alasania has held the top job in the past, Nalyvaiko is the acting head, and they’re considered the two front-runners. On Monday 10 April each candidate will be presenting their concept for the broadcaster in a public interview, that will be streamed live. Afterwards the Board of Directors will make their decision in camera.
To the uplifting cultural events of the week one can add the Kvitka Cisyk concert at the National Opera in Kyiv. It was first of all a celebration of Ukrainian classical pop music, with some of Ukraine’s leading pop artists performing in a wide range of styles, from ethno-pop, like the band Luiku, to alternative pop (which is Kira Mazur) to Euro-style pop (Oksana Bilozir) to traditional classic (Oksana Mukha). It was all tightly scripted, accompanied by a spectacular light show and directed by Vasyl Vovkun.
This polished performance was in tribute to Kvitka Cisyk, an American Ukrainian recording artist known as Kacey Cisyk. Internationally, she is most famous for recording “You light up my life”, the title song of the 1977 film which became an international hit. But for Ukrainians, she lives on in her two albums of Ukrainian folk-based songs, recorded in 1980 and 1989 in the US, with full studio orchestra accompaniment. These songs, which can still be heard on radio, still set a high standard for easy Ukrainian pop classic.
Kvitka would still be singing today, were it not for breast cancer. This concert was the 10th annual fundraiser produced by Alex Gutmacher to raise awareness of this type of cancer. Funds raised will go to purchase mobile mammography units that travel the countryside, and make mammography accessible to Ukrainian women.
There’s a great jazz scene in the western Ukrainian city of L’viv. Every year it hosts the Alpha Jazz Fest, where musicians from all over Ukraine and the world come to play in many outdoor venues. This year’s main headliners will be Gordon Goodwin’s Big Phat Band, playing the main stage on June 23. To get you in the mood, here’s a piece by a local L’viv group, the Dzyga Jazz Quintet called Tango on Trostian Hill (Танго на горі Тростян). Enjoy!
Next week we’ll have more stories and current events. Tune in for a new episode. And we’d love to hear from you. Write to us at email@example.com. I’m Oksana Smerechuk for Hromadske Radio in Kyiv. Thanks for listening.
Interview transcribed by Larysa Iarovenko, Ilona Szieventsev, and Nykole King. Headlines and Culture by Oksana Smerechuk and Marta Dyczok. Music selected by Marta Dyczok. Sound engineers Timothy Glasgow and Andriy Izdryk. Special thanks to Western Radio for use of studio and technical assistance. Web support Kyrylo Loukerenko.